Subscribe to a newsletter from Streetwise Publications and you will always receive a couple of sales letters thrown in the envelope.
Usually these are business opportunity related offers but there can be the occasional strange offer for a weight-loss course or a speed camera detector.
I’m not surprised that Streetwise do this, it’s good marketing. If you are receiving a newsletter from them then you are already a customer and so related offers for other products are likely to be well received.
So, in with this month’s issue of Passive Income Newsletter (PIN for short) I got a sales letter for a new product which is described as a “back to basics betting method”.
If there’s one thing that sells well in the biz opp world then it is a system involving horse racing.
This one is called the “Lazy Lay Quick Cash System” and has been written by someone called Bill Stratford.
Bill claims that, starting with a £200 bank, he made a tax-free profit of over £47,000 in 2006 by turning the tables and becoming a bookie.
He even provides a run-down of his results he got from laying horses to lose in 2006 and during this time he only had one losing month when he lost £685.60 in October.
His best month was December where he made a massive £21,853.20 in profits spread over 24 bets. Pretty impressive figures…
This system isn’t cheap at £197 but it does come with a guarantee: If Bill’s system has a losing month in the first 3 months after you purchase, you can get a full refund provided that you have followed the system correctly and you send in your betting records to Streetwise.
I’ve purchased a similar laying system in the past but was unable to make it work correctly simply because I had to be glued to the PC in order to trade during a horse race. This was so that I could minimise losses by betting in play.
Not sure if you need to be available during races with the Lazy Lay Quick Cash System. It doesn’t seem that way because Bill says in the sales letter that:
“…you only need to invest a few minutes each day to make this system work for you, scan your morning paper, and place your bets…”
Sounds great but I’m not sure if I’m going to buy this one – not yet anyway!
Bill Stratford is correct in one respect:
“…You know it’s hard to pick winners, so it’s not surprising you never see a poor bookmaker. After all, picking losers (which is what most punters do every day at the bookies’) should be easier…”
My results so far?
Well, over the course of a month I am 25 % down…
Check out my story here:
http://www.bizoppsuk.com/lazy_lay_profits_system.php
If you’ve been using the Lazy Lay Profit System, it’d be great to hear how you are doing. Leave a comment by filling out the form below…
Comment by Ben — 9th December 2007 @ 12:38 am
This system has been pushed in the What Really Wins Money newsletter by Clive Keeling. Interestingly, though, the link to the sales website has ‘cp’ at the end, which may refer to Canonbury Publishing, who Clive works for. The link also has some impressive results, which stop just when Ben (December 9th) was at maximum profit! Now this may just be a coincidence, but I would like to see how things progress over the next few weeks before I shell out £197…
Comment by Jools — 9th December 2007 @ 1:33 pm
4 bets today, all at Wolverhampton. 3 good bets (for us anyway i.e. three losing horses) and 1 bad bet (1 winner).
Yesterday wasn’t so good, mainly because I missed one race and couldn’t get decent odds on another. The one I missed would’ve been a winning selection and the one I couldn’t get on would’ve been a loser so I guess it evened things out.
According to my calculations there are three races tomorrow which satisfy the criteria – check the main site for results which will probably be updated this weekend…
http://www.bizoppsuk.com/lazy_lay_profits_system.php
Comment by Ben — 13th December 2007 @ 11:44 pm
Hi Ben
Been reading your results from the Lazy Lay Profits System with great interest as I have looked at many Lay systems over the last couple of years.
I did actually trial this system for a month last year for Clive Keeling of What Really Wins Money but I regret to say that I fared no better than you.
So I hope you do better with it in 2008, I shall watch this space!
Sadly, it does seem that a winning Lay system is very hard to find, the nearest I have found so far is the Bank Vault Report. You may know of it, you operate a 5 rung ladder with an online calculator to work your bets out
The problem is that it gets a bit scary if you havnt had a winning bet after the 3rd rung, the liability makes you wonder if its worth the stake, even with a 2.7 ceiling.
However, I live in hope of finding the answer.
Regards
Mike Cooper
Comment by Mike Cooper — 18th January 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for the comment.
I’ve just updated my results for the year to date. Unfortunately a run of 4 losing bets in a row have made a complete mess of the bank and they came just after I almost got back to my original starting point of £200.
After the one race this evening (a winning bet!), I am now 30% down.
I can’t see how anyone using this system turned £200 into £40k or whatever the claim was in the sales letter and would love to see real, detailed proof of this.
I promised to use the system for at least 100 wagers and, with just 51 made so far, I have some way to go before I quit.
I’ll keep you posted!
Comment by Ben — 20th January 2008 @ 1:31 am
Hi Ben,
Been using this system since Jan 5th and am about 23% down as of today. but I’ve just had 3 winning bets in a row and from the records for 2007, January is a poor performing month anyway with this system. I suspect February may show improvement. From the 12th to the 19th December when I started using this system I made 65% return on my money so this system has got potential so I won’t give up on it yet. However, I do agree, we don’t know if the results on the website are rigged.
Please note, in December I only bet at odds between 2.00 and 3.00 but now I am laying at up to 4.00 at times which I think is too risky. I think I would limit lays to 3.5 max. Any comments?
Comment by Roy — 25th January 2008 @ 2:15 am
Hi Roy,
Thanks for taking the time to post your results, very interesting indeed…
Since I’ve been using the Lazy Lay system I have noticed that every time I lay a bet at 2.0 or under, I lose money so I think your idea of only laying at over 2.0 is spot on.
Also, I agree with you that laying at 4.0 is much too risky. I’ve now capped it at 3.45 – and even losing at these odds is painful.
Now I look back, the 12th-19th of December was a great period. I managed 7 winning bets and just 2 losers.
This week so far has been 4 winning bets and 2 losers… Site will be updated over the weekend.
Nice to compare notes on this system. I agree with you that it is best to limit the bets you place to between 2.0 and 3.5 to stem the tide of losers.
I’ve got two picks today, one at Kempton and the other at Wolves.
Fingers crossed!
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 25th January 2008 @ 8:40 am
Hi Ben,
January is traditionally a bad time for reliable, quality races. The lazy lay system does not perform as well each January. Perseverence is needed. This last week has been a very good week for the system and I suspect we are coming out of the losing streak now. February will be very interesting.
Comment by Roy — 28th January 2008 @ 2:04 am
Hi Ben,
Coincidentally, I to started testing this system live on the 8th November 2007 finishing on the 5th February (3 months) I have been laying to 10% of bank and my bank sits after 3 months @£94.28 with a low of £50.00 in Dec and low of £56.0 in january a high of £197 at the end of november.
The strike rate has been around 58% and it made a level stakes loss of -2.26pts over the period.
The lazy lay people show a profit but the odds they are laying at are unattainable for most, yours and my results are very very similar acheiveing very similar odds which goes to show what is realistically achievable, forget this system if it can not profit based on level stakes it will not whatever the staking plan.I know from a few years of experience that any low odds systems whether lay or back must have a strike of at least 65% to make a small profit.
Interestingly enough the lazy lay people emailed me about a selection which was selected when the favourite was a non-runner on the day of the race, the selection was not the favorite in RP which explains why some of their results are different, they change the rules when it suits them and then state that your selections are different from theirs and incase anyone is wondering?? 6 emails to cliam my 3 month money back guarantee, have failed to get a response from the lazy lay people, and anyone who wants to log a dispute with paypal if you do it after 45days of purchasing they will not accept it.
I hope this helps.
regards,
Kim
Comment by Kim — 12th February 2008 @ 12:25 am
Hi Kim,
Many thanks for the detailed post of your results. I’m very surprised that the company behind the Lazy Lay system hasn’t refunded your money. I’m not going to mention them by name at the moment but it’s safe to say that they have a reputation in the UK market and messing people around over a few quid is puzzling me. Surely it’s not worth the loss of reputation?
What is probably happening is that they have already paid their affiliates the 50% and so do not want to refund because they would have to ask for money back from their “JV” partners.
Keep trying – they promised to give money back if you had a losing month in your first 3 months. By my reckoning (if you’ve got similar results to me) you’ve had 3 losing months!
Thanks,
Ben
P.S. I’m continuing until at least 100 bets have passed. The last 11 bets have resulted in 9 winning wagers including one today…
Comment by Ben — 12th February 2008 @ 9:41 pm
Ben,
Just to let you know afetr going direct to the publishers ( several times) of the Lazy Lay they have refunded my money in full, James from lazy lay just ignored me.
regards,
Kim
Comment by Kim — 20th February 2008 @ 11:37 pm
Hi Kim,
Glad to hear you got your money back but it’s ridiculous that you had to fight for a refund. I imagine that although you got a refund you are still down in terms of money from the losing wagers at BetFair (and you’ve wasted a lot of time with this system).
Things don’t look good with my results. Last week was a complete disaster and this week isn’t much better so far. Results will be posted this weekend but I’ve got to say – my experience with the Lazy Lay system has been pretty terrible.
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 21st February 2008 @ 10:17 am
I agree the system is a disappointment and I am requesting a refund as well.
They tell me at Hilite DMS (the company that markets this) they are in profit, I don’t know how, I stick to the rules by the letter.
I just hope I get the refund.
Comment by Roy — 25th February 2008 @ 6:24 pm
Hi Ben
I’ve been paper trading the system from late November. A couple of observations. I had Cyborg as a selection on 6/3/08 in the Lingfield 2:00, it came 2nd with an SP of 2.33. Also, you say that you haven’t selections for 8/3/08, I’ve got Lethal in the Wolverhampton 6:20.
Regards
Mike
Comment by Mike — 8th March 2008 @ 2:25 am
Hi Mike,
Looking back, I can’t see why I didn’t take the “Cyborg” bet but there must’ve been a reason! Unless it’s one I just missed by accident?
I did miss a winner on Wednesday (Grimes Faith, 1850, Wolves) because the best odds I could get were over 3.50…
So, if I had taken both of those bets it would’ve been 11 winning bets in a row, a very nice sequence to have…
Today (Saturday) I am not taking Lethal (1820, Wolves) because back in January it was racing in Class 2 races and this particular race is a Class 5.
It’s a judgement call and comes down to individual I think. In this case I’m not 100% sure that Lethal is a ‘false favourite’ so I’m going to discount this particular selection.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for your input by the way, how is your bank looking?
Cheers,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 8th March 2008 @ 10:34 am
i purchased the LLS about 4 months ago and have been paper trading only so far.
while the results have not been outstanding, they are showing a profit, which after 4 months is fairly encouraging.
i am allowing for commission and if a horse won at say 2/1 i am counting it as a 9/4 winner. in other words i am adding quite a bit on to the sp to make sure that the profit is not over estimated.
finally i cannot agree with your record of selections. for instance on 3 march there were 5 lazy lays but you only mentioned 2. i have found discrepancies on other dates as well.
i am fairly meticulous when working out the lays. it is fairly easy, takes about 2 minutes on the RP website, so i’m sure that you have made mistakes in arriving at the lays, with respect.
feel free to contact me if you wish.
regards.
graham
Mike, you are quite correct. Lethal was a qualifying lay.
re the ruling “beware of 2nd favs being withdrawn” i have ignored that for record purposes. should make not much difference in the long run.ie, if 2nd fav wdn, obviously we’ll lay more winners but at a much shorter price, so should even itself out (roughly)
Comment by graham — 9th March 2008 @ 12:47 am
just double checked my records. started on 2 nov 2007, and system about 15 points up, after allowing for laying at around 10-15% above sp and allowing for commission at 5%
better than tommo that’s for sure. 🙂
just realised. i am laying the selections (on paper) whatever the price, even if it’s over 4.0 on betfair. that could account for some of the discrepancies.
Comment by graham — 9th March 2008 @ 1:01 am
Hi Graham,
Thanks for your comments, they make for very interesting reading!
I could be making mistakes but unfortunately the Lazy Lay team do not publish their selections anywhere so I can’t check with them…
“finally i cannot agree with your record of selections. for instance on 3 march there were 5 lazy lays but you only mentioned 2. i have found discrepancies on other dates as well”
I’ve checked my notebook on this one and I only have 2 selections on the 3rd March. Please could you list the horses I missed? I could be missing a vital ingredient for selections!
Just checked the RP, no selections tomorrow…
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 9th March 2008 @ 8:37 pm
Hi Ben, unfortunately I haven’t been keeping a record of the names of the horses, just how they went on.
I will do so in future.
If you e.mail me, I’d be happy to show the way I work out the lays the night before racing.
Comment by graham — 10th March 2008 @ 4:25 pm
2 lays tomorrow. 🙂
Comment by graham — 10th March 2008 @ 9:37 pm
Hi Ben
I had 3 selections on the 3rd March, yours plus ‘Kyrie Eleison’ which did in fact come 1st (four initially but one, ‘On Every Street’ was dropped based on the class comparison). I did email Lazy Lay about the class comparison and if you email me, I’ll let you know what they said.
I think my bank performance is roughly in line with yours. I need to update my spreadsheet though and I’ll re-post then.
No selections today 13th March.
Regards
Mike
Comment by Mike — 13th March 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the update. I’ll fire you an email later on, I appreciate the offer.
‘Yes One’ yesterday was my 100th Lazy Lay selection. From 100 wagers I got a 64% success rate (64 winners, 36 losers).
And now, after 101 selections, my bank stands at £212.52.
Although no selections today, I think I’m going to continue with the Lazy Lay system for the time being to see if it continues on this ‘winning’ streak.
Cheers,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 13th March 2008 @ 4:32 pm
Hi Ben
Just thought I’d let you know that I came up with no selections today after the initial 3 were eliminated following the class comparison.
Regards
Mike
Comment by Mike — 10th April 2008 @ 3:19 pm
Hi Mike,
Thanks for dropping by! Like you I initially had 3 but I discounted the 3rd (2050) because of the class drop. The 1st is a non-runner in any case but the second selection (2020) had been racing in Class 5s but then raced in one Class 1 and is back in Class 5 territory so I think I will be taking it.
Cheers,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 10th April 2008 @ 5:33 pm
Hi Ben
Good call, although slightly different to what Lazy Lay advised me. I see that the 2050 selection would have worked as well today!
Cheers
Mike
Comment by Mike — 10th April 2008 @ 11:58 pm
Hi, hope you dont mind me joining in, I started this last wednesday, and by following ‘the system’ to the letter I have made 23% profit, which is better than putting it in the bank!! I made an expensive mistake by thinking I new better on one race, so wont do that again. There is one thing I didnt relize when I started, is that you only seem to get the amount you put on back (double the stake)when the ‘payout’ box sys a lot higher. Am I being stupid as I’ve never done any betting before.
Apart from that so far its a fun thing to do, but must be careful it doesnt turn into an obsession!!
Comment by Sam — 14th April 2008 @ 12:11 pm
Hi Sam
You will get baqck double your stake if you lay the horse and it loses (less commission). If the horse that you lay wins, then you will have a liability according to the odds given in the libility box. If you lay a horse with odds of 3.0 with a stake of £10 and the horse lose, you will be paid back £19.50, ie a gain of £10 less commission. If however, the horse wins you will have take a loss of £20 as you have agreed to payout at 3.0 which converts to odds of 2/1. The figure in the payout box is what the backer of the horse will receive back in total if their horse wins. Hope that helps.
Mike
Comment by Mike — 15th April 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Hi Mike, Do you really think there is milage in the system? Bill Stratford’s profits I am assuming are based on level stakes of £100 – whereas I have been staking 5% of a bank and still don’t seem to be getting back in the black as everytime i get near to there we have a loser which puts the bank back into the red!
Comment by Mitsp — 16th April 2008 @ 9:01 am
Hi Mitsp
My version of the Lazy Lay system recommends betting 10% of your bank on each time, so I’m not sure where your £100 level stake figure is coming from. As for mileage in the system, you can see from Ben’s results that a winning run will increase the bank. It would be nice to see a winning run that takes Ben’s bank to double his original £200 to £400, he could then withdraw his original £200 and play with the winnings. At that point I would say there is mileage in the system.
Comment by Mike — 19th April 2008 @ 3:49 pm
hello all
ive been testing this since the beginning of the month.. so far standing at a small loss…. i was feeling hopeful but the general tone of this blog seems to be that it doesnt return the kind of money it promises…. If it doesnt then how can these people keep pushing these systems… ?? The results in the literature are undeniable so all i can assume is that they are somehow inaccurate ( ie some losing bets left out) or we are not doing it right….????
anyway my question is how good are streetwise at refunding the money in a losing month… do they get really fussy about every bet or are they honest enough to believe you did your best and give you the £197 back ?
I have to say in streetwise’s favour that up to know they have refunded me on anything i returned within their conditions of return.. so thats a big credit to them . But this is the first time i may return something based on results rather than an unconditional guarantee !
mark
Comment by mark — 8th May 2008 @ 3:35 pm
hello.. well i left a detailed posting this afternoon which showed up on this blog but a few hours later was gone … there was nothing wrong or abusive about it .. i was making general comments and asking if anyone had difficulty getting their guarantee on this system .. Is there any censorship here please ?
mark
[Addition by Ben: Hi Mark,
Thanks for the message. I’m sorry that your comment seemed to show up and then disappear but all comments are moderated before they appear on the blog (it’s to stop comment spam which is a huge problem with blogs). Your comments should appear immediately from now on because you’re on the “OK” list!
Thanks, Ben]
Comment by mark w — 8th May 2008 @ 6:41 pm
hi there
watching your results with interest… i made a small loss on may and am still doing june. keep up with the results as im comparing my selections to yours something which the system’s organisers/sellers could do for us really. so far im in a small profit for june but not much ..some races on monday and wednesday left in june
really hoping ill get my money back on this sytem as its not really capable of the profits implied in the system’s sales literature in my opinion.
thanks
mark
Comment by mark — 20th June 2008 @ 9:25 am
Hi Mark,
It’s been really quiet the last couple of months with very few selections. I had one selection on the 11th that I haven’t reported yet (a profitable selection) and one on the 14th which I didn’t take due to the odds at Betfair being too low.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the new season to start in September(?) before we see a decent number of selections.
I’ll try and update my results over the weekend but thanks for the message.
Cheers,
Ben
Comment by Ben — 20th June 2008 @ 3:42 pm
hi ben
ive been comparing my selections with yours over may and june. i do seem to have more selections than you. still not doing brilliantly tho. one thing is you mention the odds in betfair being too low! i dont understand this ….by low do you mean 4 and over or less than 2 ? . The system appears to be calculated on the odds in the racing post then as far i can make out the betting is only NOT done if the odds are 4.1 or more ( which i’m loathe to put on i can tell you as potential loss is great ) Is one of us making a mistake…??
cheers
mark
[Addition by Ben: Hi Mark,
When I talk about odds being “too low at Betfair” I basically mean that I do not lay a horse if it is trading at below 2 on Betfair. This isn’t part of the rules defined by the Lazy Lay system, it’s just something I do because horses that are priced so low tend to win, a lot! Out of the 30 I have come across which are trading that low, 20 of them won the race.]
just as a comparison ..today 30th june i have 2 selections at wolverhampton 3.30 “precision” and 4.30 “talking heads”
how about you ?
[I got no selections today – the first (1530) was priced at less than evens and the second was not a selection as the last race it ran was at Wolves. I check the website, not sure if that differs from the paper?]
Comment by mark — 30th June 2008 @ 12:22 pm
hi ben
thanks for the comments . have you finished testing the system now? you did it pretty comprehensively . I for one am grateful for the time and effort you put in and for sharing it with us .
I am still confused as to why we were getting different selections tho I have been over and over the full instructions and cant seem to find any procedural errors in the way im doing this so dont understand why im getting selections when you werent . I use the racing post website too not the papers .
I think you were absolutely right by the way to discount horses trading at less than 2 on betfair…
I think this system may work best in conjuction with an “Losses carried forward ” system . You did have a bad run in jan with 4 losses in a row but that seemed to be the worst of it
mark
[Addition by Ben: Hi Mark. Maybe I have a different version of the Lazy Lay system? Maybe they changed the rules after I got my version of it – which is 1.99119 EHQ… The system stops now until September so what we may be better doing is having a few weeks off and then comparing in September?]
Comment by mark — 15th July 2008 @ 7:17 pm
hi ben
dont know what version of system i had . ive returned it now because i made a small loss in july. streetwise repaid me the £195. they are very good at handing back the money if you abide by rules by the way for anyone thinking of using them .
obviously i know the system now anyway so may try again in september . tho i am thinkng of carrying foward losses on unsuccesful bets to mitigate losses.
the real killer with betting is runs of the same result … as soon as you hit 5 in a row youre into big money. you face 2 problems then one is the stakes become very high but also you are afraid that you might not get the bets on anyway because of the large amounts of money…
id love to know by the way quite how the proponents of this betting system get bets of £20,000 plus on in betfair ?
anyway
. yes see you in september and well compare results a bit more closely maybe
cheers
mark
Comment by mark — 24th July 2008 @ 11:45 am
Comments have now been closed on this post.
If you would like to leave a comment about the Lazy Lay System, please do so on the following post:
Lazy Lay System – Results from the New Season
Comment by Ben — 4th September 2008 @ 9:09 am